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Discussion in 'Speaker Kit Information' started by Erich H, Apr 28, 2016.
Post all Fusion questions or helpful tips here.
PRODUCT PAGE: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/fusion-10.html
FUSION 10 Pure mkii
I'd like to thank Erich and all the people involved in designing the SEOS (zilch, Audio Josh, Coctostand, Penngray, LTD02, etc.)
This speaker was designed to provide high efficiency and output, while achieving linear axial and polar response, all on a reasonable budget and compact size. What does that mean? Solid HT performance in a living room friendly size on an average budget. This speaker covers all the usual requirements of someone with a normal home and income. Alternatively, it's great as a no compromise surround for those with fully dedicated, large, HTs.
The sound is clear at low levels and when on screen action is demanding and loud. It has uniform response over a wide range of angles, both horizontal and vertical. Recommended for use with a subwoofer(s) as bass below 80hz was traded in favour of higher efficiency and output.
Q. What changed in this speaker from the old version?
A. It went from the SEOS12 to the SEOS10 to allow for a narrower cabinet. There's no significant performance difference.
Q. What is the impedance?
A. Nominal 8ohms.
Q. What is the power handling?
A. 200 watts.
Q. What is the max peak output?
A. 118db @ 1m. For a typical 12ft listening distance, it would be 107db, although the room would provide an apparent SPL of about 110db.
Q. What subwoofer XO do you recommend?
A. Start with 80hz, but I always recommend measuring the results in your room with your sub(s) and adjust from there. Less than 60hz is not recommended.
Q. Can I make the box smaller or bigger?
A. The net volume should be between 20 and 30L, however this woofer is quite flexible to box size changes.
Q. What should I use to stuff the box?
A. I prefer polyfill or insulation. Line the walls with a couple inches thick, but be careful to keep away from the port openings. It's ok if some area doesn't get covered.
Q. Is there any way to improve the performance of this speaker with a better compression driver or woofer or cross over parts?
A. Not without a total redesign. The performance gain would be very small. Better off going with a different speaker altogether.
A little word on measurements. It's important to understand that my measurements are taken in a nearly reflection free environment (outdoors on a tall stand) and the software is used to further remove reflections from the measurement. This provides a nearly anechoic results. It does however make the low frequencies not useful. For this, I employ other techniques. I often don't show the low frequencies because the box size can change from person to person.
Because the measurements are reflection free, they can look quite different than room measurements often seen on forums. Please be careful when comparing the two. If someone shows a measurement of any speaker and that measurement is taken in their room, it deserves scrutiny. Room measurements are very useful, but they don't tell someone else very much about the speaker. These reflection free measurements are the way to evaluate the speaker's objective performance.
Finally, there are many measurements one can take of a speaker. I generally show some on and off axis behavior and not much more. I may measure things like distortion for myself when designing the speaker, but they aren't very useful when making a comparison without fully understanding the measurement conditions and other aspects of the test. Usually, these detailed measurements just confuse people. So they are omitted.
Having said the above, here are the Fusion 10 Puremeasurements for your consideration
THESE ARE TEMPORARY, A CHANGE WAS MADE TO THE SPEAKER AND I LOST THOSE MEASUREMENTS. IT ACTUALLY MEASURES BETTER, I'LL UPDATE SOON. THANKS.
On axis, woofer filtered, tweeter filtered.
XO DETAILS AND INSTRUCTIONS
CABINET DETAILS AND INSTRUCTIONS
If you purchase the flat pack kit, you don't need to worry about this all that much. Assembly is usually a pretty smooth and easy process. If you're building your own cabinet with just the baffle, you need a final volume around 20 to 30L after bracing, ports, etc.. The ports supplied in the kit will tune the cabinet properly if you're in this range of volumes. Generally, bigger will give you lower bass with this woofer. To get a cabinet of about 30L, your box dimensions should be 12.5" wide, 20" tall, and 12" deep BEFORE you attach the front baffle. It's a good idea to make the box about 1/16" small all around, and then you can flush trim or sand the baffle flush with the box.
I'm aware those dimensions are bigger than 30L, but the waveguide, woofer, XO, bracing, and ports all consume volume bringing it down around 30L.
You can make the box as shallow as 9" before attaching the baffle if the small reduction in bass isn't a problem. The height and width should stay the same to properly attach the baffle. Another option is to go sealed by cutting off the ports and reducing the box height. You can do this, but you're somewhat on your own and there will be a big reduction in bass. You're better off experimenting with plugging the ports so you can open them again if you find the bass lacking.
Use fiberglass insulation or pillow polyfill to line the cabinet walls. There are other available materials such as Owens Corning 703, denim insulation, open cell foam, etc. If you're not sure, use the guts of a cheap pillow. Line it on the interior of the cab using staples or spray adhesive or some form of attachment. Keep it clear of the ports and the basket area of the woofer. You don't want any getting tangled in the woofer.
No need to go fancy. As long as it connects properly to the XO it'll work. Biwiring doesn't help. Speakon connectors are a good method if you're comfortable with them.
Duratex is a popular method of getting a durable, black, easy finish, though you are free to finish your speaker any way you please. It's a good idea to scan some of the build threads for all kinds of DIYSoundGroup speaker builds to get an idea of finishing options. Choose a procedure that fits your tastes and skills.
I've been looking at different Horn speaker designs and recently came across the Fusion 15 series which I really like. I noticed that the Alpha series kits are offered in bamboo and would like to know if this is possible to do for the Fusion 15 cab.
Fusion 8 Question. I'm going for three standard Fusion 8's across the front but will need to put the centre on it's side. Unfortunately I don't have space for the dedicated Centre so will have to do the baffle myself with the waveguide rotated. Just wanted to check if there was anything particularly important measurement wise I need to take into consideration for the spacing between woofer and waveguide/ ports etc.. Was planning on a port each end as I think it will look better and around 21-22" width. Obviously I will keep the volume the same. Any help appreciated, thanks.
The two way Fusion models should not be turned on their side. It would be best to get the Fusion-8 center channel instead of laying a Fusion-8 on it's side.
I'm having an issue with the Fusion-6 Center channel. It sounds like i'm getting distortion from the woofers but only with dialogue and at certain frequencies.
Did you use the foam gaskets on those woofers? I have heard them make vibrating/resonating noises against the baffle if the gasket is not used or if the screws are not tight enough (or sometimes too tight).
Yes, I did use the enclosed gaskets. I can try loosening and/or tightening them. It's just an odd thing as it is only certain dialogue frequencies. I guess I'll try to find a DVD scene that has the issue and just mess around with things to see if it clears up.
What happened to the fusion 8 towers?
The page for ordering the Fusion 4 says two speakers is the minimum order. I have been recommending this solution to people needing a narrow center speaker. It seems like people with a fireplace need a narrow speaker for which the Fusion 4 is absolutely perfect.
Can the Fusion 4 be ordered as a single?
I can't seem to find any published measurements for the Fusion 8 Centre or the Towers and Cinema 8's. Just made mine and would like FR plots to compare to as a reference. Erich, Matt, Jeff just wondered if you could post them if available. Thanks
Why is it that the frequency response of the F12 reaches lower than the F15?
Bass response depends on the type of woofer, tuning of the enclosure it's in, and the design goals of the speaker, not necessarily the size of the woofer. For example the tiny Speedster uses a 4" woofer that can play down to 42-45hz, but that doesn't make it comparable to the Fusion-15. The Fusions were purposely designed to be used with subwoofers handling the lower frequencies.
I have a question on the Fusion 8 towers and the Cinema 8's.
The Cinema 8's are an MTM setup and I am a bit worried about horn placement for front LR mains. I have some 10" stands that I use for myself KEF C75's, but those are coax and put the coax tweeter right at ear level. With the Cinema 8's and those stands, it puts the center of the horn much lower than ear level - the angle off axis would be about 5 degrees low in my room. Is this 5 degrees lower much of a concern at al?
Now the Fusion 8 towers are a TMM setup, but have a 37" front baffle and no flat pack. I understand why there is no flat pads for these, but I just don't have the tooling for designing/constructing my own box. Might these also have a lower extension than the Cinema 8 with a bigger box?
Anyways, just wanted to get you thoughts on the SEOS-8 throw and horn height as far as coverage. An any chance doing a TMM setup with the smaller flatpack? Is the MTM a better option because of lobing?
I run a 2.1 setup for music and HT and I have a small living room to fill. Listening position just a bit wider than the speaker spread, so just looking for the best possible staging and off-axis response as I can with a small setup.