AE TD15M-4 (and 8) + BMS 4550(16 ohm) / DNA-360 SEOS-12 build

Crossover design update, go to post #14 to see new schematics.

The other design I did for Bass Addict, TD15M-4 (thanks to Mark Seaton for letting me borrow it) with the BMS 4550 (16 ohm) on the SEOS-12. I also designed a crossover using the DNA-360 as well. Both sound nearly identical and so much that I find them virtually indistinguishable. You could say I went all out on the crossovers; they are both very well behaved and I am really pleased with the results. I would go as far to say these are up with the top sounding SEOS designs.

The TD15m is a top sounding driver, in fact I would say I liked it more then the JBL 2226. The sensitivity of these designs are around 99-100dB 2.83v/1m or 96-97dB 1w/1m. The TD15m in a 2-3cuft sealed enclosure has an f3 of just about 80Hz, perfect for a HT with the crossover set at 80hz. I find it to have a nice amount of midbass impact in the sealed enclosure and crossed to a good set of subs would make for a very nice impactful system.

The crossover on this design ends up being right around 1100-1150hz trying to push it a little lower would move the phase out of alignment pointing the lobe down. The SEOS-15 would offer a better match to this and the other 15” woofers but for now the SEOS-12 does fairly well.





4550 design on axis response and phase:


Distortion at 90dB/1m:


0-60 degrees of axis horizontal:


0-30 degrees above axis:


0-30 degrees below axis:




DNA-360 design on axis response and phase:


Distortion at 90dB/1m:


0-60 degrees of axis horizontal:


0-30 degrees above axis:


0-30 degrees below axis:


4550 design individual driver response and sum:


DNA-360 individual driver response and sum:


Comparison of 4550 and 360 HF response with crossover:


Comparison both designs full range response:


4550 crossover schematic:

360 design crossover schematic:


Example woofer board (one of Bass Addict's):


Example HF board (also Bass Addict's) this is for the 4550 but the DNA-360 is very similar in design just some component value changes needed:



Whew that was a lot of pictures and graphs ;D

 

Re: AE TD15M-4 + BMS 4550(16 ohm) / DNA-360 SEOS-12 build

Here is a TD15M-8 design which I did with help from lennon_68 who provided me with an impedance file for it. This was simulated only but if the FR of the 8 ohm TD15m is anything like the 4 ohm it should be pretty much spot on. If lennon builds them hopefully he can comment on the SQ of this one.
Here is the schematic:

 

Re: AE TD15M-4 + BMS 4550(16 ohm) / DNA-360 SEOS-12 build

Wow,
Thank you so much for this. I've been sitting on (3) TD15-m-4 & some DNA's until I had time to learn PCD or play with Bill W's MiniDSP files.
I'll be sure to post pic's once I get started on boxes, thanks again.

Edited for content 05-23-13 9:42 a.m.

 

Re: AE TD15M-4 + BMS 4550(16 ohm) / DNA-360 SEOS-12 build

I'll definitely be building the 8ohm one. I just have to figure out which (if any) of these XO components I have laying around before ordering them up This will actually be my center channel. Thanks again for working up the 8 ohm crossover for this!

 

Do you have an impedance plot?

And I'm a little confused (newb) - you mention the sealed f3, but show a ported box. Can you explain for me please? Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

 

I forgot to take some impedance measurements of the finished speakers with the WT3 but I have the simulated impedance which should be pretty much identical.

You will have to login to view these, imageshack was giving me a hard time trying to upload them.

As for the enclosure I used the one I built for the Fusion-15 "Sentinel" design, however I plugged the ports for the design process.

 

Great design! I am building a quick box for my td15m-8's and using some SEOS 12's with bms4550-16's just sitting on top for now. I am using a minidsp 2x4 balanced. Any initial shots at the active settings?

 

These should be pretty close to the passive design,

Woofer:
3rd order BW 650hz
EQ:
500hz, -2dB, Q=0.5,
1100hz, 6dB, Q=1
1600hz, -20dB Q=3
1900hz, -10dB Q=3

CD:
2nd order BW 1500hz, (level -12dB for TD15M-4, -15dB for TD15M-8)
EQ:
1400hz, 6dB, Q=2,
3000hz, -4dB, Q=0.5,
17,000hz, 10dB Q=1,
18,500hz, -6dB Q=3.

Let me know how those work for you.

 

Thank you very much! I will report back and eventually start a build thread here. I wanted to build boxes today, but it has been raining all day and my garage is full of too many toys!

First world problems.

Thanks again!

 

Hi MTG90, Thanks for another design.


I noticed that this time you approached the design from different angle that previous Faital Pro 12PR300 speaker. Before it was third order on DNA360 without notches (similar to Parham and Jeff Bagby) and now it's 2nd order with notches (similar to bwaslo).


Is there any particular reason for that? Do you have any preference to any of these approaches?


Can you compare the sound of Faital/Seos and AE/Seos?

 

I usually try to start with whatever gives me the best phase tracking through the crossover, but the second order with notches gives me a little more control over the response. However I also like having a highpass filter that does not need a dozen parts

I just finished up another design using the 4550 and TD12M (I need to post it up here) That one happens to be 2nd order on the CD as well with the only notch being there bring down the peak near 18k on the 4550.

I can't really remember what the FP design sounded like it was almost a year ago and many other designs have been built since then. The HF section should sound similar as the transfer function around the crossover is very close between the two.

 

OK, I finally have these things cranking. They sound pretty good. I assume that you meant "BW 1650hz" on the woofer?


I am getting excessive audio hiss out of the tweeter from the minidsp. I may build the passive for the tweeter, though I really want to stay with the minidsp. I am eventually going to get the SEOS 15 in plastic and then order SEOS18 when the next group buy goes in, so the minidsp would make these changes much easier. I am going to mess around with some gain structure stuff. Maybe I need an amp that has level attenuation for the tweeters so I can boost the input levels as much as possible to get the SNR more favorable.


Thanks again for these settings.


Brian

 

Nope 650hz is the correct number for the woofer xover setting. There is some boost at 1100hz (6dB) which brings the response up before the actual acoustic crossover. Those two combine to create a fairly sharp roll off, and worked out more like the passive crossover then a higher order slope at a higher frequency did.

Yeah noise from the tweeter is a common problem for active designs especially when using such high sensitivity compression drivers. One way to fix it is to use an l-pad on the tweeter which will lower the noise but also drop sensitivity by the same amount so you are wasting some power in those resistors. A large capacitor is also commonly added to protect the CD from DC signals which may come from the amplifier. I thought I designed one for the DNA-360 that dropped it 6dB and posted it in one of these threads but I can't locate it.

 

OK thanks! This is my first active setup, so I am still learning. Thank you for the help.


The minidsp seems like it has some excessive noise on the analog outputs. I will try and fashion an attenuator on the tweeter side.

 

I finally got around to a revamp on this design after some input from Travis and to better match the SEOSR mains for Jake (chopshop). I posted the graphs and some more info for the TD15M-4 + DNA-360/SEOS-12 design in the S.E.O.S.R. thread here:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1457166/s-e-o-s-r-mega-build/1110

The 4550 (16 ohm) and TD15M-8 designs should very closely match those results.



Here are the crossover schematics.


TD15M-4 + DNA-360/SEOS-12:

TD15M-8 + DNA-360/SEOS-12:

TD15M-4 + BMS 4550 (16ohm)/SEOS-12:

TD15M-8+4550(16ohm):

 

I very much appreciate this Matt, thank you for all your hard work.
I had purchased the parts for your first iteration maybe a week after posted, just never had time to build them out. And I guess I never will as I just received the additional parts needed to build this revision. I'll be doing the TD15M-4 DNA-360 version, which Is not marked V2 by the way.

 

I can only compare to my TD12M-8, SEOS12, DNA360 which sound better every day, these sound very impressive.
I should have all (3) boxes lined and assembled today, may wait till spring to do a finish. A big thanks to mgt90 and Erich, without whom I'd just be building bird houses...

 

Any chance of getting updated active settings? I'm running the initial settings and would love to update and compare.

Thanks

 

Is there any chance of this design AE TD15M + DNA360 SEOS15 turning into a kit?
I'm really sold on the TD15M driver and would like to build LCR setup with the SEOS15 and these drivers.
Should I just order up the parts and get startet or could I possibly hold on a bit and see a kit arrive?

 

The response for the updated filter looks really good! Will we see a filter for the SEOS15 (TD15M-8 ohm + BMS 4550-16 ohm) as well?

 

No chance of designing a XO for SEOS15 BMS4550 TD15M?

 

Matt,

As you know I'm doing a TD15M /DNA 360/ SEOS 15" design with an active crossover. I'm reading through this thread and noticed you had some great suggestions and setings for a SEOS 12". What changes to that would you reccomend as a starting point considering the change from SEOS 12 to SEOS 15?

 

I'd say you can start with those then adjust EQ on the CD so that the response is flatter with the SEOS-15 and you may need to adjust delay on the woofer a bit to get the phase to line up better.

 

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1704681-ae-td15m-seos15-dna360-active-crossover-need-advice-pls-2.html#post30428234


I had asked here too.


Ok.. so to be clear you are saying that basically the same setting you listed earlier for the SEOS 12 I should start there with the SEOS15 and just adjust the EQ to get it flat?

 

These I was talking about: