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Discussion in 'Waveguides and Horns' started by BillWaslo, Apr 29, 2012.
Clarifying, you DO need mids, just that getting power and spl from them won't be hard.
I would love to have one like this. Would this be possible with some EV DH1A drivers, and some 10"-15" woofers as a 2 way? I currently have JBL 2350A horns with EV DH1A drivers and DIY 1/4 pie Bass bins with a Exilica crossover. I can go as deep as 4'... my limitation is no more than 33" on the narrowest dimension (to fit through the door).
10" or 12", I strongly doubt it. You have to have the midrange ports quite close to the tweeter throat, hard to do that without running into the tweeter's body with a 10" cone! Hence, 3-way synergy designs done to go into bass frequencies. Though, the lower you can push the tweeter's bottom end, the further away you can put the midrange ports. But 12" woofer is about 3x bigger than I think you'll get without some other tricks. Don't even start to cut wood until after you run a HornResponse sim on where you plan to put the mid/woofer ports, the quarter-wave null isn't something you could fix after-the-fact.
Even as a 2-way (no mids)?
A 2-way would be no WOOFs. The problem is getting the tweeter to meet up with the next lower driver.
Oh... I was thinking the woofers would take over around 500k from the EV DH1As (like they do in my current setup), and continue down to around 50Hz. I didn't realize the mids would need to be there in a 2 way version. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
If the DH1As are beefy enough to play to 500Hz on a conical horn, and if you can get the ports close enough (less than ~5" from each other, and less than 5" from the diaphragm - not just throat - of the tweeter), and you can get the right length of travel and air volume between cone and horn (HornResponse modelling), you might be able to get there. But I think a 10" would still be a stretch. Three way with a smaller midrange would give you a lot more versatility and much better chance of success. Synergy horns are much trickier than mounting drivers on a baffle.
Sooo... you should take a look over on the Klipsch forums in the technical/modification section. Check out the K-402 based multiple entry horn. It uses a single 2 inch compression driver and two 15 inch woofers.
The K-402 is a rather large horn, and he crosses at 475Hz. Very cool project and it took some nerve to cut holes in such an expensive horn.
Btw, , I'll be making use of your spreadsheet. Many thanks for all of your work and input.
I have seen the post...just can't afford to buy the horn/driver/crossover new from Klipsch (very expensive). A DIY wooden one is much more affordable to me.
Even with the help of this great spreadsheet, designing my own synergy from scratch would be to much for my skill level.
Bwaslo, is there a recomended "write-up" of a manageable build around? Seeing that the drivers for the original build is now obsolete, I saw somewhere that there was a build with FaitalPro/Visaton coming up? Is this something that is finalized?
I have read the SpeakerScott thread and his very good write-up, and this is an option.
No, I haven't done any speaker builds for a while. There is the Trynergy projects on the diyaudio.com multiway forum that has some similarities.
Thanks so much to share your effort and I really appreciate the details and the latest update. The passive crossover is what I like the most, for I just start to learn about speaker building. Since I still can obtain some 2" drivers and I really want to try my skill for this challenging design. I have couple questions and wish you could show me some light before I cut the wood.
1). The woofer on your design is no longer available and I'd like to try the Dayton as of your recommendation. I know I have to re-calculate those numbers, but my old computer, old as I'm, can't run the program you provided on your spreadsheet. Would there be much off from the original dimension?
2). What if I make the horn with the original dimension for running only the CD and the mids drivers for 385hz cut off with the designed crossover? I could match the lower ends with my existing bass boxes.
Thanks in advance
That would probably work ok. The horn doesnt really do too much for the woocers except keep them closely placed to the mids. Youd lose that but probably not too big a deal if you keep your existing woofs close. You'll have to figure out level matching though.
Big thanks Bill,
I'd put the 10"woofer close to the horn. Will let you know how it goes.
please advise on one capacitor for the midranges, It said 18uf on your crossover schematic with PE#027-432, the number is for 15uf. Should I go with the supplied number's parts, or I go with the said 18uf, PE#027-434 instead.
Go with the part number (15uF).
I've been busy with my limited skill and this is what is up till now. I've found difficulties on those flares angle. Might take a little bit more time to figure out.
I've done something during the weekend. Please do comment if there is anything I could do better.
Painting is done. Crossover is pending for parts. Should be in very soon.
I finally have the bassbox done with Deltalite 2510 in 1.6cu.ft tuned to 60hz. They sound amazingly good and I like the sound stage wide and open. They sound as if they're a big fullrange drivers and you don't have to sit in the middle to have the best spot. The highs and mids are extremely mellow and sweet, doesn't sound honky at all. I'm going to build a pair of subwoofer to make a set.
Big thanks again to Bill.
Those horns look pretty, AlbertLi. Where are you crossing over from mid to woofer?
Synergy horns do have a one of a kind sound...
I crossed the woofer at 380 hz. They sound good to my ears and I have to cut about 3 db down on the 2510 to suit. Learning how to do measures with computer program. Will upload some graphs later.
Eh..did you try with other drivers yet?
Working on a 'mini' version, with all different (and still available) drivers. Something more acceptable to my wife in the living room (my big boxes are in the basement). Having some difficulties coming up with a decent simple crossover for it at the moment, though. I think I made the back cabinet a little too small...
WAF is the same over here. I'm lucky to have a full basement for all my hobbies. I only can make speakers in summer months and lots of rain, humidity and windy in the winter months and it's not good for the paint to dry. I only do fishing in the fall and winter.
I had the Smarrt V.7 set up last night and do some measurements. There is a big dip at 2k and I did correct it with eq. but still couldn't make them all flat. Any ideas?