Eminence 15" Subwoofer and Midbass Information

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by Erich H, Feb 14, 2019.

  1. #1 Erich H, Feb 14, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
    I thought it would make sense to put all of the information on these 15's in one place.

    How did you come across these? I was at Eminence picking up the new neodymium magnet coaxials and one of the guys there asked if I was interested in some custom subwoofers they had made up for another company. These are similar to the Lab15 but with some tweaks. I know one of the tweaks was a bolted on top plate that was an extra cost. There are also different terminals and I'm guessing possibly a different spider due to the extra X-max and slightly different specs than the Lab15. I don't think they weren't supposed to get the shiny finish that Eminence puts on the Lab15 cone and by the time it was realized, some had already been made. I sent the specs to one of he speaker designers and he said these worked really well in sealed, ported, and horn designs, for subs or midbass modules. So I told Eminence the DIY guys would love these and bought them.

    Why are these called Buy Outs? I don't have a huge quantity of these so it's a one time deal to get something like this for this cheap. As usual with any custom stuff, I will keep 5 or so on a shelf for 5+ yrs just in case anyone needs a replacement in the future. After 7 years of doing this, that's never been needed, but I will keep them here anyway.

    Will you hold some of these for me? I will set up a 'preorder' option and you can pay a smaller amount to hold some of these for you up to 1.5 months. There will be 2-3 raffles for free items going to people that buy these woofers. You can only be included in the raffle after you've paid in full. It wouldn't be fair if someone preordered, won the raffle, then cancelled their order.

    How did you come up with the price? A small amount was added to the cost of the woofer. I then added in $2.15 for an extra packaging box and $4.50 for Paypal fees. Due to each weighing about 28lbs I'm assuming the average shipping price will be around $20 which has been added in to cover "free shipping". That took the total to $151.27, so I just made them $150 with free shipping.
     
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  2. #2 Erich H, Feb 14, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2019
    Enclosure recommendations from MTG-90: (I'll update this with more info later)

    Sealed Home Theater:
    • Home theater subwoofer: Sealed boxes from 2cuft and up.

    Dual Sealed Home Theater:
    • Two of them in a dual opposed box netting 3cuft. (18" x 20" x 22").
    • Two of them in a front facing box netting 3cuft (32" x 16.5" x 15.5").

    Ported Home Theater:
    • 4cuft tuned to 22hz - For a good balance of low end frequency response and volume.
    • 4cuft tuned to 30hz - Using half the power, this will equal or beat most popular 18" subwoofers used in the same size sealed box from 25hz and up. Great for a high output music subwoofer or high output midbass modules.

    Midbass Module:
    • Sealed boxes as small as 1.5cuft.
    • Ported boxes as small as 2cuft tuned to 40hz.

    Horn design:

    Car Audio:
    • Sealed in 1.5cuft enclosure.
    • Ported 2.5cuft tuned to 35hz.


    Amplifier Ideas: Two of these drivers would work well wired in parallel off a bridged inuke 3000 or NX3000 or a single channel the 6000 which could then power 4 drivers if using both channels.




    SPECS:
    • Rated RMS Power: 600 Watts
    • Rated Max Power: 1200 Watts
    • Impedance: 8 Ohm
    • Sensitivity: 89.5db 1w/1m
    • Frequency Response: 20hz -250hz
    • Voice Coil: 3"
    • Magnet: 160oz. Ferrite
    • Overall Diamater: 15.34"
    • Cutout Diameter 14"
    • Mounting Depth 7.75"
    • Weight: 26lbs.
    • Re: 5.10 Ohms
    • Le: 2.85mH
    • Fs: 25.6Hz
    • Qts: 0.35
    • Qes: 0.38
    • Qms 6.04
    • Vas: 125.2L (4.4cuft)
    • Bl: 25.31
    • Sd: 823.7 cm^2
    • Xmax: 14.25mm
     
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  3. #3 Erich H, Feb 14, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
    GROUP BUY RAFFLE!

    Whenever I do a "Group Buy" I always like doing a raffle for people that participated. I wasn't sure what made sense for this one, but then remembered that I had two unopened brand spanking new Crown X Series amplifiers! One is the X2000 and the other is the X4000.

    I'm going to look around and see what else can be put in the raffle and will also figure out when it will take place. I'll get that figured out shortly.
     
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  4. Woohoo! Got my order in. Thanks Erich.
     
  5. got me set also.....that a good start to a system! those lab 15's are like $330 a peice regular and these seem hot rodded!

    tried to order the maximus 12's again and it still said only one kit available?
     
  6. Erich, how would I go about putting one of these in “hold”. As stated you said we could put up a small amount up front for a bit. I don’t see an option on the site. Also I live in Cincinnati and could pick it up.
     
  7. I'll get that option listed tomorrow. I wasn't sure how much to make the 'hold' option per woofer. Any ideas?
     
  8. Honestly, your gracious enough to do all of this for us so whatever you think is fair would suffice. I just plan on buying other kits soon, and want to lump it all together.
     
  9. Thanks Erich, just ordered one. Since you're here, do you know when the HT series will available?
     
  10. #10 mattcc22, Feb 15, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
    I was all set to order two Magnum-12 drivers for my bedroom HT setup, but now this has me comparing the two! Mag-12's are really all I need, but in the same size enclosure the 15" Buyout definitely has more to give, just needs more watts to get there. I like how efficient the Mag-12 is though....ugh...decisions, decisions!

    Erich or Matt @Matt Grant any idea if the Mag-12 would be more impactful in the mid-bass region due to better sensitivity or would this buyout-15 be just as good or possibly better? I've had the Mag-12 before in a 2.5cuft box tuned to 24hz and loved it. Sold those with my last house, but was looking at building the same again in a smaller room. Now these pop up and trying to decide. Not trying to chase under 20hz, and I listen to a lot of music so like punchy, tight bass.
     
  11. I’m super interested. So as you know I built quad Max12 towers with BMS Coaxials for my LCR and they worked out so great. They are Mid Bass Monsters but dont dig deep, tuned for 42hz

    Im thinking of putting a pair of these in a tower, tuned for 17Hz. Say an overall gross enclosure of 72”x17x22? Say maybe a 300L net volume enclosure wiith a single port slot?

    Matt? Thoughts? 95db sensitivity and, just curious how high these will perform in the midrange before the point of diminished returns? Says 250 but wondering if 350-400 can be squeezed out?

    Im not home so cant run the specs in WinISD.
     
  12. I believe the Magnum-12 has the sensitivity (SPL/V) advantage above 100hz but below that range it actually shifts over to these Lab-15 buyouts due to their lower DCR squeezing more power from the amp. In terms of overall efficiency (SPL/W) that still goes to the Magnum-12. That's when used in an identical enclosure volume/tuning. The Magnum-12 can still be used in an enclosure tuned higher without causing as much of a peak in its response and in that case its sensitivity should just barely pull ahead of these Lab-15s .
     
  13. I'm not sure how difference the frequency response on these would be from a normal lab15 but if they are similar and Eminence's spec sheet is correct it looks as those the Lab15s output drops off a bit above 120hz. It might be able to be used that high with a steep lowpass but I really don't know what to expect.
     
  14. Agreed I see the dip from 120 to 500, hence the factory spec of usable 250hz as that would be the natural rolloff and xover point to the mid driver. I’d have to play with the mid driver HP and ensure that both horizonatal patterns at 250 are pretty much omni.

    Whats great about this driver is its ability to lower FS, maybe softening the spider, increase the XMax significantly, however, maintain the power handling capability and the do so while maintaining the baseline sensitivity!

    Any chance you guys can run an open air sweep of the driver? Im curious if the larger top plate would have any affect on the top end. The cone is the same I believe, so that wouldnt change it.

    Also, if at some point you can just model the above scenario Id greatly appreciate it!

    2 drivers, single slot port 15-16” wide, 17-18hz tuning, and 300L net volume, Id appreciate it. I am not around my computer with WinISD for a while.

    Thx again.
     
  15. I can vouch for that assessment. I’m getting an overall sensitivity/output (If I dis it right) of 102.5db 1.83-2v @ 1Meter- 2nd order LP xover at 400hz and a steep 4th order LWR HP at 36Hz, with a 42Hz tune in that box (rear ported due to lack of real estate on the baffle for ports). Im losing that little bit of acoustic output from the rear firing ports in my measurement, but I suspect its negligible.

    Hope that helps
     

    Attached Files:

  16. hey erich ,
    under amp idea's you listed bridging a nx3000 and running two of these in parallel........this is the amp i'm going to use (or the crown xls 2502) and unless i'm missing something that would be a 2ohm load and that amp isn't 2ohm stable bridged?

    pretty sure you'd have to run a pair of 8ohm subs in series on this amp bridged for a 4ohm load?

    have you wired them that way in testing? hate to fry my amp!

    thanks,
    bob
     
  17. Two 8 ohm drivers in parallel present a 4 ohm load to the amplifier. Both the XLS2502 and NX3000 are rated for a 4 ohm load when in bridged mode.
     
  18. @Burnsze15, tuning that low (17-18) means a much earlier rolloff, which may be what you're after. Here are some rough ideas for a single driver:
    Eminence-15-rough-charts.png

    Top to bottom:
    Cu.Ft. Fb
    3.25 30
    5 25
    8 20
    5 18 (this is yours)
     
  19. #19 mountainman bob, Feb 17, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
    i must have misunderstood bridging.....when you bridge a stereo amp you lose half its impedence load ability. which in this case is 2ohm > 4ohm

    i was calculating it out of the speaker side.....8 in parralel = 4 then halved = 2 ,,,,,my bad.

    also figured out that series doubles the impedence......i have my two 4 ohm subs wired in series right now thinking it was still 4......no wonder i can't wake my sub amp up, its seeing a 8 ohm load! guess i'll fix that today.

    bob
     
  20. hey gregg,
    what might the slot dimensions be for the first and second one? or are those sealed?

    thanks, bob
     
  21. 44 sq.in. S(v)min for the first, and 36 sq.in. S(v)min for the second, but those will give you very long ports (35" and 26" respectively) . For the 5 cu.ft., it's no problem. Shrinking the 44 to 24 gives you an ~18-19" length, but these beasts will move a lot of air if you're turned up. Don't have port velocity modeling to hand.
     
  22. Another option would be a PR, but those are going to cost almost as much as the driver itself at the size we need. If anyone has teamed a Lab15 with a PR, it would be good to hear their take on it.
     
  23. At that point (which is what I'm considering), just put 2 in a small-ish sealed cab (or 1 each in two separate cabs) and EQ to get the low end where you want it.
     
  24. Maybe Erich will offer a Sonotube kit for them. ;^)
     
  25. Sonotube... exactly what I was thinking, they are just too easy! I am no expert though, so I’m eager to hear opinions on the matter. I’m currently building a new HT room in the basement and “making plans” for a few system upgrades along the way. In my old room I had an Inuke 3000dsp powered SI HT-18 in a big sonotube, but I’m trying to improve the WAF while not giving up performance (and it seems almost impossible to find another ht18 these days to pair it with anyways if I want a multi- sub config). Since this buyout opportunity popped up I’m wondering they might do the trick. I like the fact I could re-use the Inuke for a pair of these which I know is good for balancing out the new 14x20 room. What really tempted me is a pair of dual opposed though. I know if I posted on AVS all I would hear is that I’m a fool for even thinking about trading my 18 for 15s, but I’ve got to believe either option with these 15s would provide way more bass than any “reasonable” person would ever need, right?!?
     

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