Fusion 10 Max Official Thread

Discussion in 'Speaker Kit Information' started by tuxedocivic, Jan 7, 2015.

  1. PRODUCT PAGE: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-theater-speakers/cinema-10/cinema-10-max-kit.html

    Cinema 10 Max

    I'd like to thank Erich and all the people involved in the SEOS design (zilch, Audio Josh, Coctostan, Penngray, LTD02, etc.)

    SUMMARY

    This speaker combines the compact footprint of a 10" speaker with the incredible output of a comparible 15" speaker. It uses a seamless cross over to allow crystal clear mids with stunning accuracy. The dual woofer design constrains the sound in the vertical plane to keep unwanted ceiling and floor reflections tame, while maintaining smooth horizontal coverage across the entire listening area.

    Flexible placement, higher performance, crystal clear sound, cracking dynamics... All features of this speaker. Whether for the dedicated HT, or the serious living room, heck even an outdoor HT, this speaker has what it takes. All in a cost effective package.

    FAQ

    Q. What changed in this speaker from the old version?
    A. It went from the SEOS12 with DNA-350 to the SEOS10 with DNA-360 and received dual 16 ohm woofers instead of a single 8 ohm.

    Q. What is the impedance?
    A. Nominal 8ohms.

    Q. What is the power handling?
    A. 400 watts.

    Q. What is the max peak output?
    A. 125db @ 1m. For a typical 12ft listening distance, it would be 113db, although the room would provide an apparent SPL of about 116db.

    Q. What subwoofer XO do you recommend?
    A. Start with 80hz, but I always recommend measuring the results in your room with your sub(s) and adjust from there. Less than 60hz is not recommended.

    Q. Can I make the box smaller or bigger?
    A. The net volume should be between 40 and 60L, however this woofer is quite flexible to box size changes.

    Q. What should I use to stuff the box?
    A. I prefer polyfill or insulation. Line the walls with a couple inches thick, but be careful to keep away from the port openings. It's ok if some area doesn't get covered.

    Q. Is there any way to improve the performance of this speaker with a better compression driver or woofer or cross over parts?
    A. Not without a total redesign. Consideration given to the Elusive 1099. Similar performance and design for use as a center, but the dedicated midrange may offer a step up in clarity.
     
  2. MEASUREMENTS

    A little word on measurements. It's important to understand that my measurements are taken in a nearly reflection free environment (outdoors on a tall stand) and the software is used to further remove reflections from the measurement. This provides a nearly anechoic results. It does however make the low frequencies not useful. For this, I employ other techniques. I often don't show the low frequencies because the box size can change from person to person.

    Because the measurements are reflection free, they can look quite different than room measurements often seen on forums. Please be careful when comparing the two. If someone shows a measurement of any speaker and that measurement is taken in their room, it deserves scrutiny. Room measurements are very useful, but they don't tell someone else very much about the speaker. These reflection free measurements are the way to evaluate the speaker's objective performance.

    Finally, there are many measurements one can take of a speaker. I generally show some on and off axis behavior and not much more. I may measure things like distortion for myself when designing the speaker, but they aren't very useful when making a comparison without fully understanding the measurement conditions and other aspects of the test. Usually, these detailed measurements just confuse people. So they are omitted.

    Having said the above, here are the Cinema 10 Max measurements for your consideration.

    On axis, 30 degrees, and 60 degrees

    [​IMG]

    On axis, woofer filtered, tweeter filtered.

    [​IMG]

    On axis, above and below axis.

    [​IMG]

    The low end bass response looks similar to the Elusive 1099 GP measurement if interested.

    Summary

    This speaker measures very flat which should provide a neutral sound. The off axis behavior horizontally is smooth and consistent which will provide a uniform listening experience at every seat in your HT. The XO slopes are gradual with a smooth hand off providing a smooth transition through the XO region with the need to hammer the response into shape. The vertical listening window is limited to 20 degrees which will keep nasty reflections off the ceiling and floor and especially unique is that the vertical directivity extends very low due to the MTM design of this speaker. This means even low frequencies will remain pointed at the listener, not the ceiling.
     
  3. XO and Cabinet Construction Instructions and Advice.

    Cross Over - MORE INFO COMING

    [​IMG]

    CABINET DETAILS AND INSTRUCTIONS

    General

    If you purchase the flat pack kit, you don't need to worry about this all that much. Assembly is usually a pretty smooth and easy process. If you're building your own cabinet with just the baffle, you need a final volume around 40 to 60L after bracing, ports, etc.. The ports supplied in the kit will tune the cabinet properly if you're in this range of volumes. Generally, bigger will give you lower bass with this woofer. To get a cabinet of about 30L, your box dimensions should be 13" wide, 32" tall, and 12" deep BEFORE you attach the front baffle. It's a good idea to make the box about 1/16" small all around, and then you can flush trim or sand the baffle flush with the box.

    I'm aware those dimensions are bigger than 60L, but the waveguide, woofer, XO, bracing, and ports all consume volume bringing it down around 60L.

    Smaller Box

    You can make the box as shallow as 9" before attaching the baffle if the small reduction in bass isn't a problem. The height and width should stay the same to properly attach the baffle. Another option is to go sealed by cutting off the ports and reducing the box height. You can do this, but you're somewhat on your own and there will be a big reduction in bass. You're better off experimenting with plugging the ports so you can open them again if you find the bass lacking.

    Stuffing

    Use fiberglass insulation or pillow polyfill to line the cabinet walls. There are other available materials such as Owens Corning 703, denim insulation, open cell foam, etc. If you're not sure, use the guts of a cheap pillow. Line it on the interior of the cab using staples or spray adhesive or some form of attachment. Keep it clear of the ports and the basket area of the woofer. You don't want any getting tangled in the woofer.

    Terminal Cups

    No need to go fancy. As long as it connects properly to the XO it'll work. Biwiring doesn't help. Speakon connectors are a good method if you're comfortable with them.

    Finishing

    Duratex is a popular method of getting a durable, black, easy finish, though you are free to finish your speaker any way you please. It's a good idea to scan some of the build threads for all kinds of DIYSoundGroup speaker builds to get an idea of finishing options. Choose a procedure that fits your tastes and skills.
     
  4. Build Photos

    [​IMG]
     
  5. I am pretty much set on using the 10-Max for my (identical) LCR. I would like to build towers for the cabinets so the wave guide is near my seated ear level.


    My questions are related to what should I keep in mind when designing the cabinet. I could take the straight forward approach of using the recommended flat pack dimensions with a sealed empty chamber in the bottom of my towers however, I feel that reducing the cabinet depth would be useful for my application (easier to aggressively toe in behind the screen for example).


    Is there a useful minimum for required depth of the cabinet given I can have a lot of box space below the CNC kit baffle? Would including this extra space (increasing the volume) have negative effects on the port placements? Perhaps using a couple large round ports at the bottom of the baffle which would be more in the center of the box space would be better for my application?
     
  6. Thanks for the Q op-center.

    Because you want a shallower cab, I'd suggest a 9" deep cab and extend the whole thing to the height you need. Use the included ports and thoroughly stuff the lower portion of the cab and merely line the back/sides/top behind the woofers. That'll kill any long standing waves and keep the ports doing their job. It'll also be the easiest way to accomplish your goals.

    Does that makes sense?
     
  7. Thanks for the reply. Your solution makes sense. One of the things I had been worrying about was the balance (port distance from woofer). I feared I would need the same volume on the top of the cabinent as I added to the bottom. I am glad to hear that I can stuff the bottom and take advantage of the extra liters for more low end tuning without some weird standing wave problem within the cabinet.

    As for an easier build... I have a hard time letting myself do anything the easy way and have some ideas for fine wood finishing to match my room. I expect time saved with the baffle will only be a small part of the overall cabinet construction process. I want to have something that looks as good as I hope it will sound.

    Now on to the daily stock check in hopes of sniping a few kits when available.
     
  8. It's always worth the effort of making it nice the way you want it.

    Just to clarify, don't put a divider between the woofers. They share the same air space. But yes, it's fine if one is further than the other from the lower air space. Just use the stuff like I mentioned. :)
     
  9. #9 mountainman bob, Mar 12, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
    Resurrecting this one because i’m about to start building these.

    Any one who has them are welcome to offer tips and/or tweaks

    Thanks, Bob
     

Share This Page