In-wall version of Delta Max

Discussion in 'DIY Speakers and Subwoofers' started by tuxedocivic, Dec 12, 2012.

  1. He probably doesn't need it to stick out 3.5". The waveguide + CD is the limiting factor. Including 1/2" drywall, he'll have a total of 4" (2x4 is actually 3.5"). The waveguide is 3.5" deep. The CD is 2.4" deep. I say 2" stick out is probably fine. I have 2x6 construction and mine fits fine. So 2" is all it should take. And that really should be ok. There will be some added diffraction but shouldn't screw things up to bad. Like I mentioned, he might want to make a 2" wedge for both sides of the baffle. The top and bottom shouldn't be an issue.

    All this assumes no rear panel like I did. And porting it will make things a little trickier. I went sealed.
  2. OK, thanks!

    The 2" wedge: how wide should that be to taper to the surrounding wall?

    And, is the plan to achieve the same 1 cubic foot net volume as the box design with blocking top-and-bottom?

    If so, since the depth is no longer the larger interior depth of the original box design, I imagine the height needs to be like 28" or 32" tall?
  3. Just a 45 degree chamfer about 2" wide. You could make it wider, but what ever you can fabricate will help.

    I boxed in the top of mine but left it open to the floor plate. I probably have about 2 cu.ft. If going ported, you'll have to consider total volume. If going sealed, just do what ever works. The delta 10a can go in a pretty big or small box. Ported I'd shoot for 1 cu.ft. But either way, you could use the supplied baffle and then extend the enclosure down or what ever. If it get pretty tall, make sure you stuff the bottom of the enclosure well to avoid any transmission line effect.

    Most of all, don't worry about the details. Build it how it'll work for you and the rest will fall into place. If your volume is out a few litres, not the end of the world. And if the baffle sticks out funny, meh, probably more an asthetics issue than a audible one :)

    If you'd like the xo, send me a pm. I'll see if I have it on my computer here, otherwise give me a couple days. I'm pretty sure you need more time than that anyways ;)
  4. I'm looking at doing this same build except with the 8in speakers. Any suggestions? Trying to keep a small footprint as I will be going beside and under a plasma.
  5. Hey superfrog. Sorry for the super late reply. I've been very busy the last few months and just slowing down now and catching up on things. I don't have much advice for an 8". Which design were you going to use? Afaik this is the only design optomized for in wall use.
  6. I'm brand new around here, but trying to take it all in... and a little sad to see that this in-wall concept didn't take off!

    I'm not seeing the Delta Max anywhere but this seems to be similar in driver complement to what is now the Fusion 10 Pure? I've been eyeing that as a solution for my room, and would love to go in-wall but only have 4" walls. Backup plan may be to simply cut through both sides of the wall and recess the speaker into my wife's closet on the other side (shhh!!!) but to the best of my understanding, the Fusion 10 Pure as-designed would already have baffle compensation integrated, and backing it up to nearly-flush with a solid wall would throw its response off.

    Alternately, I could recess it only to stud depth and leave it ~6" out of the wall (conveniently flush with about where my not-quite-razor-thin Pioneer plasma TV sits).

    In either situation, obviously toe-in would be out of the question, so I'm not sure if in-wall or recessed mounting would be a good idea at all.

    Any thoughts? My room can't really tolerate the full bulk of a Fusion 10 or any other solid speaker sitting out in the room (partly because my left channel will be sitting right near my hallway door) so I started looking into in-wall and recessed mounting options; if I could pull that off with the dynamics and dispersion that I'm reading about here, I'd be a happy camper.

    Thanks for any input.
  7. hey zero

    I'm still really enjoying my installation, although I've changed certain things around. Like now using the DNA-360. I'm surprised more people weren't interested in an in-wall option either. Oh well.

    You could build it into a 4" wall and have a few inches sticking out. It would cause a bit of diffraction, but fairly minor. And you'd get it more flush with your TV it sounds.
  8. Thanks for the response, glad to hear you think it may be workable. I might reassess after I open up my walls a little more; it may be smarter to step down to one of the 8" (or dual 8"?) plans. Room isn't very big, but it's open to 2 other rooms, so I really would like to have a big dynamic front end that will get my attention.

    Do you think in a partially recessed setup like this I'd be better off with the as-designed crossovers for the in-room speaker or the crossovers you designed for in-wall application? For that matter, should I consider trying to angle the baffle to accomplish some toe-in? Or should I just start simple and then tweak later?

    Right now I'm just really excited to get into this because I sold off my towers moving into this place and decided the in-walls I wanted were going to cost me at least ~1500 apiece which is completely out of my league at the moment. Leaving me with (don't laugh) my $100 Costco patio speakers currently screwed into my walls on each side of the TV. This place has opened my eyes to some possibilities that I can actually afford and which I think will be much more sonically impressive than anything I've had before.
  9. I'd say using a dedicated in-wall XO is certainly better, but if there isn't one available, just be ready to EQ. Nothing wrong with that.

    I didn't angle my baffles. I didn't have a choice. They had to be flat. I don't have a problem with imaging, however it may be possible to improve thing, I dunno. I would do what is simplist and fits within your construction requirements.

  10. I don't worry TOO much about the baffle angle since I generally sit in my center position; if my wife is off on the side couch and her imaging suffers, she's just gonna have to deal with it. And I suspect that just having quality high level output will be more than enough to impress visitors without them being too concerned with exactly how the image varies as they move off center in the room. 8)

    Thanks for the feedback, I'm still weighing my options and right now I'm really tempted to work up something like the Fusion 8 MTM since it will be a bit less imposing in my space (tall/narrower profile flanking the TV), especially if I recess it into the wall. Not sure if I'd really be sacrificing much by going in that direction rather than the Fusion 10 with the much larger SEOS waveguide. Decisions, decisions...
  11. You certainly won't loose much going with the Fusion MTM. Two 8s are more than one 10. And the vertical MTM is nice. Where it'll suffer is the Jeff B XO has lots of baffle step compensation, so you'll need to eq that out likely. A true in wall will have a full sensitivity rating and no baffle step problems.

    BTW, in walls are rad. I still love mine. It's amazing. It's really hard to beat. It took a 3 way monster for me to say, ya, this is better.
  12. Congrats, Tux!
    I'm [SIZE=small]surprising this for some years.. [/SIZE] ;D
  13. Ha, ya, I suppose that's just how it is. People still believe the myth that in-wall sounds bad or something. Nice avatar ;)
  14. thanks, it's my left speaker on avatar.

    currently using 2380 modified to 1.4".
    ::) can't decide: black matte used seos24 vs gloss white new seos24.. or not seos wg in corners with mb and IB inwall subs.. :-\ :-\
  15. This is the only thread I've found on this so I'm VERY happy to be here!! I recently built two subs from B-Stock Epic Empire drivers and am really happy with them. So next I'd like to tackle my mains and center. Before really getting the DIY bug, we finished our basement and i cheaped out hoping for good value on the monoprice 3-way in walls. I think they sound ok, Audyssey thinks I can cross over my subs at 60hz when calibrating however after hearing some floor standing speakers with no subs I know i'm missing alot of fidelity. My problem is WAF. I have to stay in wall or on-wall. I had to fight to get her to let me put the subs where they are as you can see here. So I'm hoping to do like you have done on a smaller scale.

    Option 1:
    I hope to keep the grills and surround and replace the "guts" of the monoprice in-wall with an SEOS waveguide and an 8" driver that i can mount to a new baffle board as a replacement like this.

    Option 2:
    a)Buy an existing kit from here that already has a baffleboard and mount it on the wall where the in-walls were. I would probably mount the SEOS below the woofer because I didn't place them at ear height, they are higher than needed unfortunately. Would need help modifying the crossover as i've never assembled or built on before.

    b)Same as "A" above except i would make a larger baffle board that would go on the wall, likely the length of the TV to add in some symmetry and then i would cut out what's needed to put the baffleboard on top of it so that i can get the SEOS/Drive at a better height.

    In either options for #2 I would need to build a grill to cover up the drivers - i'm currently building grills for the subs too.

    I think i have maybe another inch past the studs, plus the drywall i'm guessing right now i have 5 inches of depth (i guess this would be for option A).

    Can i do any of this with the Fusion-6 or Fusion-8?


  16. ( On a budget ), I'd go with the Fusion-6 MTM as your new in-walls ( if you can get Erich to custom cut the baffle board with the EOS wave-guide re-oriented 90deg ) .
    - I happen to really like MTM's, which is the primary reason why I'd choose this over the Fusion 8 .

    - You'll need to pay attention to actual published depths of the components ( since the "depth" info stated within the link must be talking about the recommended "box" ) .

    - Also, I don't know if I believe the ( lowish ) sensitivity figure published ( I would expect more from 2 woofers / assuming they are wired in parallel ) .


    This ( like so many others ) is surprising affordable with some great components .

    A buddy of mine built something similar using some surplus Audax mids ( 6.5" ) with JBL 2404 tweeters ( it was a quick lash-up that worked out very well ) .

  17. Thank you for your reply! I was thinking to do the Fusion MTM as a center and the Fusion-6 for mains to save a couple of bucks and not have to worry about the 8's being ported.

    Apologize in advance for all the questions:

    • [SIZE=small]The 3 ways i have are 8"er's and my center is dual 5.25"er's. [/SIZE][SIZE=small]Would the two extra woofer's if i go all MTM's and managed to get the wood custom add enough to warrant it? [/SIZE]
    • [SIZE=small]I think i'm going to have to repair/repaint the wall and move them down so the EOS-6 is at ear height (is that the best way, EOS at ear height?) [/SIZE]
    • [SIZE=small]Would i need a custom crossover since they'd be gong in-wall? ...I think so because of what i've read in this post. [/SIZE]
    • [SIZE=small]If I found a way to rip a board at a 15 deg angle (i guess i could calculate it to the MLP), would that help with the toe in/imaging etc.?[/SIZE]
    [font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]My original plan was to buy 3 of the Pioneer BS22's or FS22's and install their parts onto a baffle board but i realize the crossovers would not work right at all doing something like that. [/font][SIZE=small]I've not ever had nice speakers before so I appreciate the help. [/SIZE]

  18. Kind of sad that you've never had good speakers before ( I can't imagine that, having been in the speaker biz since the late 70's ) .

    Yes, the horn/wave-guide should be at ( or very near ) ear height .

    Crossover ? I suspect it'll work fine as is . I'm thinking the Fusion 6 MTM is voiced (very simply ) for accentuating voice playback / meaning it doesn't have Baffle Step Compensation ( midrange suppression/bass boost ) that would usually need to be eliminated when an in-wall configuration is implemented ) .
    You'll want to check my suspicions out with the designer ( Mtg ) by contacting him directly ( via PM ) .

    More ( Sd ) cone area is better ( assuming you can afford it ) . Simply put, it eventually translates into a bigger sound ( it would be nice if you could swing a larger EOS/SEOS horn size, but I think your depth restrictions eliminate the 10" models ) .

    A bit of "toe-in" usually helps with imaging / though I'd first install things straight ahead in a mockup ( ie; quickly get the WAF thing correct ) before further futzing with angles ( open holes in walls can quickly lead to "thin-lips , arms-crossed & finger-wagging" ) .

  19. Cold feet have set in. I have WAF for the Quad 4's mounted to the wall on either side of the TV and one below for center. My current in walls have issues as you can see here

    Would three of those give me more umph than three of the fusion6 mtm's???

  20. The Delta Max in wall is well-enjoyed by my boss.
    The six inch depth isn't a problem as they're behind a screen that was simply built out two inches from wall.

    Build them if you can do that or have 2x6 walls or don't mind a bump out of the speaker or surrounding baffle sitting proud of the wall.
  21. Tux, what in-wall speaker would buy to keep up with the Fusions but with a 3.5" depth limitation?
  22. Is this for your boss to match as surrounds?

    I don't follow the commercial realm very much, and I'm not sure about DIY. Zaph has an inwall speaker with his little woofer he sells. Not sure how many people have built it. Might be worth a try. It won't "keep up" to the Delta in wall though.
  23. For myself.

    Basement gutted. Narrow room requires limiting protrusions in aisle space.
  24. Shoot I forgot about your question, sorry. Well then for only 3.5" deep I'd be thinking non-waveguide. And as a surround letting the dispersion go wide wouldn't be that big of deal. Not sure what kits are out there. Zaph has an in-wall speaker.
  25. For the record, I've realized that in-wall won't work as well as just mounting some of the JBL surrounds or the Volt-10.
    I'm waiting for the Volt-10 kit to come back into stock!

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