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Discussion in 'DIY Speakers and Subwoofers' started by BillWaslo, Mar 31, 2012.
Hi Bill, for the benefits of idiots like me. Can you post a schematic without the L-PAD?
designer 12 or designer10?
The one for D12 is without an Lpad as drawn. If you Do want to instead have an lpad you can turn a knob on, you'd replace those two resoistors with the lpad. (I'm posting from a smart phone, drawing schematics with it isn't something i know how to do!)
OK, see the article at:
For some reason I'm not finding it. What frequency and slope did you use for the designer 12 crossover? I had a friend build himself a pair - he's using a Mini DSP and bi amping them. His cross is currently 1k and very steep - 96dB I think. I'd like him to try it set similar to your passive network to see how he likes it.
FYI - they are his new Referecnce speakers. He's also selling his Revel's if anyone wants a pair
Looks like a 2nd order electrical on the tweeter, with CD compensation and some peak EQing. 4th order electrical on the woofer. Crossover somewhere around 1 kHz (if I remember right -- that's the neighborhood of where all these SEOS12 designs should be unless used with a really small woofer).
He'll need to measure to get the shapes right (to match the graphs earlier up in this thread).
I hope you plan on posting some pictures of the end product. Bwaslo may ban you from the site if you don't!
Do you have measured curves of just woofer with its network in place, just tweeter with its network in place, then summed with like polarity, and opposite polarity? That would help a TON. Some times with CD's the electrical crossover doesn't effectivly track the acoustic crossover.. Would be helpfull to see the net effect on the individual components..
Oh believe me I'm twisting his arm to get him to write a post and drop pics. He is absolutely enamored of the speakers. Says they are incredibly revealing of source quallity - and he has never ever heard imaging like these. Odd thing though his CD's (the 75 dollar ones he purchased with the wave guides) fall on their face above 10k. Trying to get him to investigate further.
After he read Bill's Synergy post and statements RE its sound - he's decided those are his next project. Just wish I could get him to post up in here...
CALLING BILL WINDLE!!
Ok Ok here are the measurements. First one is smoothed and since db or Deon ;D doesn't like smoothed graphs I posted the rest as unsmoothed. I will post some finished pics and impression of the speakers later. My 6yr old daughter helped me build them so it was a great project for me. You will note in the graphs that the tweeter drops quickly after 10K. Not sure what this is about. Both speakers measure the same so I don't think it is a driver issue. Also the 600 dip and 850 rise seem to be a baffle step issue as the woofer without crossover still has this response. Also want to say thanks to bwalso for the info on toeing in the speakers as this creates a great image and I would have never thought of it otherwise.
This is 1/6th smoothed. Please note the scale on the left.
This is unsmoothed.
This is the woofer only with no crossover.
Maybe Bwaslo can give some ideas why it shows the drop off around 10khz. Like you said, if both speaker show that, it would rule out the drivers. Could it be something with the mic?
Hey, you didn't stuff a sock in the waveguide did you???
By the way, once I get this kit listed.......prepare to make a review!
That's a Minidsp xover, right? So why dont you add a peq section and bring it up above 10k?:
It is a mini DSP. We will bring it up - but I want him to investigate the reason behind it, and verify it's a real drop off first.. Asked him to send me the mic so I can test it against the ones I have here. Tried to attach his on axis measurement of the SEOS vs Revel..
Since I got the Red X, here's the link.
While not as low as the SEOS over 10K - his Revel's also measure off...
Have you measured sans crossover?
Of Course . Also had him re-do his entire EQ / measurement method today. Quote from BWindle: "So I worked on the crossover and eq a bit today. Now I'm starting to get more surrounded by some pieces of music. ~~~~. Made voices easier to understand. I'm happy. This is kind of why I haven't done a review as it seems to still be in a state of development for me, but I guess I can let my current opinions known. "
I was following the development ofn this speaker, it looks aliittle behind other project at the moment, and I can understand.
My question is: if I wanted to build a full range tower with a MMT configuration, would the crossover have to be modified a lot, with the second woofer covering only from low to mybe 500hz?
Marco, the crossover would have to be modified quite a bit to make the changes you were wanting. I would try it the way it was designed, or go with a larger ported enclosure. Maybe Bwaslo can let us know the smallest box volume he would recommend for porting these around 37-40hz or so. Mine are in fairly big boxes right now, but they do sound good.
Size was not a matter, I could use the tall baffle, I was just curios if I could get a look resembling the 802s (b&w)
Yes, but adding an extra woofer would completely change the crossover network.
Use a PR: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-496
You can build the top compartment sealed, then add a powered sub to the bottom section of the enclosure if you want multiple forward facing woofers. As stated above, adding a second woofer would necessitate a new crossover, and in this case(due to baffle width) 500hz would be too high of a crossover point for a 2.5 way anyway.
Thanks to all, I'll decide for the best.
Mine are in fairly big boxes right now, but they do sound good.
An old newbie and would love to make this a hobby for my retirement. Hope U don't mind the naive questions coming along the way.
I'd like to follow your design with 3.5 cu.ft box for the reason that I love bass, lot of bass. My plan is to buy a set of DNA360 together with the SEOS12 to try on. I would only use these speakers for music only.
After reading the thread and really would like U to tell more on.
1).U did mention U cut them down to 4.25" so to tune the box higher, but what is the Dia. of the port?? How many ports on the box??
2). What kind of stuffing to the box, I mean minimum/ or heavy stuffed ??
3). Could there be anywhere U could point me to find some software that I could download to my computer, so to learn more on tuning them.
thanks in advance
I'll have to double check which port we ended up with for the final design. We just lined the walls with some denim insulation.
This model will give you some pretty good bass for a full range speaker. Of course if you really wanted to shake the room, you'd still want to use a subwoofer. When I had them in my living room, I didn't need a subwoofer though.
Thanks for the reply. I only use sub for the movie and what I expect is something can present what supposed to be recorded. I wish I could finish couple speakers before it's too late.......I mean if I can't have the power to move the heavy speakers around any more.
I really would like to learn everything from start so to have more fun with whatever finished by myself. I don't have problems on woods, I was a framer and I know how to operate saws. The most important is I don't know electronics too much, and I want to learn more on measuring waveforms so to prove if I've done a good job. :'(
BTW Do I have to pre-order the 360 and the seos12 ???
Re: SEOS12 with Designer12 woofer KIT?
Is there a speaker kit available for this design?
Eleven months ago bwaslo indicated that a kit was in the works, but I don't see it listed among the Waveguide Speaker Kits.
Am I missing something?