Small and/or WAF builds using the Denovo stuff

Welcome.

Here is my stash:


I plan on measuring and documenting the smaller items I have from this site here and post some complete builds as well. The heart of everything I'll be using comes from this page here: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguides/other-waveguides.html

I've designed the:

WAF-1
WAF-1.mtm
WAF-2.x (unavailable as the performance isn't that of the WAF-2.y)
WAF-2.y
Jack of All Trades 8

I have passive and active version for most of my designs. Most of the active versions are just a simulation and should be used with caution. Let me know if you're interested in active and I'll try and measure it.

Please contact me or post here if you'd like any measurements, designs, feedback, help with cross overs, etc.

Most of these builds focus on size, looks, and cost. I try and get the most performance out of them as I can, but size and cost cut into performance compared to the larger builds popping up around here. They'll be good options for apartments, budget minded, surround duty, WAF, etc.

Thanks.

 

WAF-1



Uses the Denovo Mini Elliptical and the Peerless 830656. That's an 8 x 12" baffle. Depth is your choice. PM me if you'd like some suggestions on box alignment. I'm using 10" deep and sealed and crossed to subs at 90hz. Sounds right.

This scores a 8/10 on the ugly scale, even if I finished it nice. The reason it isn't a full 10 ugly, is the peerless cone is nice, and it's really small. But it's worth designing imo, because it's cheap, small, and VERY easy to build if someone doesn't have good tools. The key is everything can be surface mounted.

Here are the measurements.

Speaker 1

http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab306/tuxedocivic/diy%20sound%20group%20builds/peerlessandmini1.png

Speaker 2

http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab306/tuxedocivic/diy%20sound%20group%20builds/peerlessandmini2.png

XO Schematic





About $60 each once you add the mini elliptical. Nice and cheap and simple. I would not bother with the optional notch on the tweeter, unless you have very sensitive ears in the 5khz range and don't care about the extra $. It's there if you need it. Buy a 4 and a 5ohm resistor and try both. 4ohms is likely better. Might be a good idea to put 2 4ohm resistors in parallel for the 2ohm tweeter resistor. And it looks like PE doesn't sell 1ohm Daytons, so 2 2ohms in parallel for that also. PM me if you want me to help you assemble cross overs for you.

Complete MEASUREMENTS

SPL is about 83 or 84db/w/m. My REW wasn't working.

On axis and power compression



That's more than 2.83V and +18db. It was supposed to be 2.83V but I realize after the fact I had things set even higher, but I don't know how much higher. Barely a 1/4db difference. Very good for such a wimpy woofer. My gating doesn't show below 250hz, which is likely where it would compress the most. Good response too.

Horizontal 0, 15, 30



30, 45, 60



Vertical above 5, 15, 30



Vertical below 5, 15, 30



I'm pleased and going to stop here. I don't know what I'd change in such a budget build. This turned out much better than I expected.

Use these as budget surrounds if you can point them down at you. The lobe points up a bit. If you can't, then flip them upside down and listen that way. These would be good on a desktop also. Heck, even mains if you can't afford to step up to something else. These are very easy to build if you lack a router and other advanced tools. You could build these with a jig saw and a screw driver Do yourself a favour and build some grills though

ACTIVE SETTINGS (Just in case)

Woofer
Butterworth 6db/oct low pass at 1500hz
Level = 0db
Delay = 0.1mS
EQ 1 = 900hz, -2.5db, q = 1.8
EQ 2 = 2500hz, +3db, q = 1.0
EQ 3 = 6000hz, -18db, q = 2.0
EQ 4 = 10,000hz, -12db, q = 2.0

Tweeter
Linkwitz-Riley 12db/oct high pass at 5250hz
Level = -16db
Delay = 0mS
EQ 1 = 5500hz, -2.5db, q = 1.0
EQ 2 = 3000hz, +6db, q = 2.7
EQ 3 = 1950hz, -4db, q = 3.0

Active sounds really good. Didn't measure because I'm probably the only person who will hear them. But if by chance someone wants these active, they're really good.

 

WAF-2.x



Removed until the EOS6 waveguide is NLA.

 

WAF-2.y



Uses the Dayton DS-175 and the EOS6 / DNA-150. Baffle is 9 x 15".
About 85db/2.83V/m
Nominal 8 ohms.
I used it in a 15L sealed box crossed at 90hz to a subwoofer. I recommend 10L tuned to 42hz. Other bass alignments are practical, just ask.

Raw Driver measurements: http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab306/tuxedocivic/diy%20sound%20group%20builds/rawmeasurements.png

Passive Cross Over schematic



Active Cross Over Settings (if preffered)

Woofer

Offset = 0db
Delay = 0.05ms
Low Pass = Bessel 12db/oct @ 1100hz
750hz, -2db, Q = 1.5
4000hz, -18db, Q = 1.5

Tweeter

Offset = -10.0db
Delay = 0db
High Pass = Linkwitz-Riley 12db/oct @ 4000hz
5500hz, -8db, Q = 0.8
13,000hz, -3db, Q = 2.0

Bill of Materials (BOM)



Feel free to ask for help with this. I've tried to keep it down in cost, so electrolytic caps. Two 10uF in parallel to get the 20uF. Otherwise you could use one 027-436. You'll also need these three items:

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguides/other-waveguides/eos-6.html
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/drivers/tweeters/dna-150.html
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguides/adapters/adp-11.html

The total cost is about $100 per channel.

On axis and reverse null



0, 15, 30 degrees horizontal



30, 45, 60 horizontal



5, 15, 30 vertical above axis



5, 15, 30 vertical below axis



Conclusion

Very happy. This is quite high performance in my totally biased opinion. I really like it and will probably use it in my house. There is a little bunching around 3khz but gets controlled beyond 30d horizontally. The lobe is a little bit upward, which is good imo.

I would suggest these would be good LCRs on short stands under a PJ screen.

 

WAF-1.mtm

I've simulated an MTM version of the WAF-1. I think this would actually look pretty good. Could have LCR using this, and then the WAF-1 as surrounds. Would be all very easy to build. All you need is a drill and a saw. I would still use grills



This does dip down and below 4ohms from about 150 to 300hz. The rest of it has healthy impedance. I don't think many receivers would have an issue with these. They don't get down to 3ohms or anything like that.

If someone is good with sketchup or some program like that, and would be willing to draw a graphic, that would be nice

 

Jack of All Trades 8
I don't think it fits the WAF-# naming scheme. The picture below is from Nube's build, thanks for the photo Nube.



Sorry about my use of Metric units. That's 15.25" tall and 9.75" wide. Fairly compact.



You'll need these parts:


And these from DIYsoundGroup
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/drivers/tweeters/dna-150.html
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguides/other-waveguides/dw-854b.html
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/adp-11.html

All in all around $95 for parts.

Measurements
On axis with phase

Full Range (F3 = about 85hz sealed )

Off axis (0, 22.5, 45 degrees)

The pronounced 700hz and 1000 to 2000hz ranges are audible, but not all that bad. The 700hz peak is a diffraction peak, which are known to change off axis and therefore not as audible. The hump through the cross over will actually cause a flat power response because this is a Linkwitz Riley in phase cross over. So that'll be more flat than it looks. It is audible though, not trying to pretend it isn't. Just not as bad as it looks.

Here's the active settings if wanting to go active. Much flatter FR.

Woofer
Butterworth 36db/oct at 1450hz
No delay
No level
EQ
700hz, -4.0db, 1.0 q
1250hz, -3.0, 2.0 q
Tweeter
Linkwitz-Riley 12db/oct at 2400hz
Delay = 0.12ms
Level = -14db
EQ
3600hz, +2.0db, 2.0 q
13,000hz, +5.0db, 1.0 q

Cross over is attached to this post. Must be logged in to view it. If you build these, please post about it and consider donating $5 to a charity. Thanks.

SUMMARY

This speaker represents the most balanced SIZE / BUDGET / PERFORMANCE I've seen in a long time. This thing truly is a jack of all trades, master of none. I recently did a SEOS12 design with the same Eminence Alpha 8a woofer, which is much larger, but also a little higher performance. This one really does all 3. If you can afford the space and money to go to a SEOS12 design, do it. The Fusion Pure would waste this speaker. But if you're stuck with about this size of speaker, and about $100/channel, then I'm not sure what is out there that competes.

15L sealed with F3 around 90hz. Can go bigger and ported to get around F3 of 50hz. Your choice.
90db/watt/m with some baffle step compensation.
About 100watts power handling if using a sub to cross over around 80 or 90hz.
Cross over Fc around 1600hz.

 

Jack of All Trades in-wall

Coming Soon. Initial listening tests are very positive.

 

Jack of All Trades MTM

Just a simulation without any listening. Because of the tight spacing from the short waveguide, and vertical directivity of this waveguide, it could work as a center channel. Although somewhat compromised.

 

Reserved

 

Lookin good!

Im curious to see how the denovo looks flush mounted, surface mounted its a little frumpy lookin....

Looking forward to measurements!

 

Thanks.

I plan to design it this way for ease of construction for any newbs. Then I plan to recess it a few millimeters (that all you could do) and measure the design. The lobe will point up a bit once I do this, but I'm hoping not much so it could be built either way.

 

Looking forward to the mini-elliptical results! I wonder how the posted xover for the elliptical would work.

Cheers...

 

Wow! I'm listening to the little uglies and man they sound good. I can't believe how good for a first revision. I'm not even sure what to improve. $50 speakers aren't allowed to sound this good. The 5khz region might be a bit forward, but my brain is pre-conditioned to expect that based on that lump there in the sim.

Can't wait to measure. Might have to make some grills and keep these. The fun is just beginning

 

The ugly speakers are done! They sound great. No complaints. I honestly can't believe it.

Now I'm onto the DS175 / DW-654S. These sound really good right out of the gate using xo Rev2. But because they're bigger and cost more than the first pair, I'm being pickier. They sound better, much more sensitive, more clear, but they have to sound much better than the first design imo. So I'll log some listening. Measure and adjust as I see fit. Then hopefully xo Rev3 will bring about a real winner. At this point, I'd be happy, but I wanna be thrilled.

I kind of expected the opposite reaction to these 2 speakers. What a pleasant surprise. To bad the mini-elliptical and peerless don't look better ;D

 

What is the vertical dimension on that 654? Looks good....thanks for doing this!

JSS

 

The waveguide is 118mm tall. The baffle is 15". I think you wanted the size of the guide itself.

Thanks. I enjoy it

 

Thanks Erich

It came together quicker than I thought also. The first one just clicked. Sometimes they do that. The next one using the DW-654S is coming not as quickly. It's quite good, I just have high standards for this one. I have a Rev3 cross over for it that I'll try once I'm back from out of town work. Looking forward to it

 

Tux, are you taking suggestions for names? How about the WAF-1?

 

I like it

 

I'm curious to see Rev 3 with the DS175. A friend of mine was looking at the Hsu Research HB-1 horn speaker and this one could be an excellent low budget and hopefully higher quality alternative.

 

It'll be listened to and measured this weekend. I really think Rev3 will be it too

 

Tux,


I don't know if you have seen this thread over at PE forums, FYI.....just so you are aware of some others' opinions about this driver.


Thanks for your hard work, the budget WAF-1's are looking very attractive ATM. Keep up the good work.

 

Well, I'm about to agree with Johnny about this driver, but for different reasons. I think mines blown I haven't even pushed it. It's gotta be a faulty driver. I'll pull it tomorrow and take a look.

Regardless:

Cross over Rev3.3 on axis.



I think the dip at 3khz is bad phase, which didn't show up in the model. I'm quite annoyed. This cross over sounds good, probably because the power response fills that dip in. The actual xo is around 1800hz. I'm really annoyed with this speaker right now and ready to give up on it.

Here's the DS175s 2.83V response:

 

what does inverting tweeter polarity do?