Titan Speaker Kits

Discussion in 'Home Theater Speaker Kit Information' started by Matt Grant, Jan 18, 2017.

  1. #1 Matt Grant, Jan 18, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
    Official thread for the Titan-615 and Titan-818 designs

    This design was conceived while I was down at Erich's shop helping him with a some testing for a few days. Basically it was a question of what can we do for dedicated theaters with AT screens that does not require a massive baffle (which is hard to ship) and would be something more capable and sound better then the Fusion-15, which is not a slouch in either category. Erich had the horn sample there which we had looked at almost four years ago but nothing happened with it, I think he pulled it out and asked if we can do anything with it (which is how half the designs start). He had recently gotten some Celestion compression driver samples in so we decided to try some of those and we pulled a Alpha-6CBMR (closed back midrange used in the 1299) for the midrange horn just to see how well things measured.

    The initial tests looked really promising. Since the horn does not need a box all that was required was a simple enclosure for the woofer which Erich liked a lot. It was then onto the woofer choice, we talked about all sorts of combos, everything from 4-10's to dual 15's eventually settling on a single Eminence Kappalite variant as it had enough xmax that someone would almost never be displacement limited along with a very nice response well above the range it would be used. The driver he sent me also had decent extension and sensitivity while doing so in an enclosure that was not huge. I also knew the kappalite's like the Deltalites have an excellent low distortion/low inductance motor design. We decided to go with a shallow cabinet design for the enclosure because he had seen a number of questions about adjusting the cabinets on current designs to make them shallower to fit behind an AT screen with limited space.

    It took a while to get the crossover figured out, I did some initial testing while still at Erich's shop but after bringing the prototype box back home it sort of sat around for a couple months while I worked on the HTM-10 and 12. After those were finished I started messing around with this design again and once I felt the crossover was starting to get dialed in I knew we really had something here. I was really impressed with the clarity on the design; it seems so well balanced and transparent and stays that way no matter what the volume was at. The Celestion 1731 1.7" neodymium compression driver used is of the best sounding I've ever heard. It has a sound signature that's cleaner and clearer then most other's, it's hard to describe but makes everything sound better whether it be music or movies. I'd say this is one of the if not the best sounding speakers I have ever designed and easily the best example I have made for commercial cinema meets Hi-Fi, taking only the best parts of each.

    For voicing the only comment I can really make that is something I built into the design was just a bit of a bump on the bottom end to give it a little extra kick in the bass/midbass without ever being bloated at the bottom of the vocal range. The rest of the range I would describe as being voiced neutral, I just tried to make whatever I played through it sound good. It does that job well as I find even bad recordings sound better, while great recording sound amazing.

    Program power handling is 1000w+, without exceeding xmax with a 40hz minimum crossover, peak output is ~130dB. Sensitivity is 99dB @ 2.83v.

    Impedance is 6 ohms nominal, with an average of 8 ohms, minimum of 4.2 ohms at 110hz and stays above 6 ohms below 80hz and above 200hz. Any amp or AVR rated at 6 ohms should have no trouble driving the speakers, I'd say many rated at 8ohm minimum should also be fine due to the high sensitivity of the design requiring very little power for normal or even loud playback levels.

    Crossover points on this design are 350hz for LF/MF and 1900hz for MF/HF.

    At close distances (8-12') it's best to have the speaker placed so that ear level is somewhere between the bottom of the MF/HF horn and even with the compression driver. If using multiple rows on risers the first row ear level should be about equal with the top of the woofer cabinet, second will then likely end up somewhere in the middle of the waveguide and the third row if there is one will be a little above the horn which is fine at those longer distances. I should note that usable dispersion extends well above and below these ear level guidelines but it stays maximally flat in the range specified.

    Baffle wall placement can be used without issue and should result in a slightly smoother in room response but it's not required.

    I'll likely add more info to this thread as time goes on.
  2. #2 Matt Grant, Jan 18, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
    More info...

    Here is a measurement showing low frequency rolloff, the original graph does not represent the LF performance below 100hz that well. This one blends in nearfield woofer response below 150hz and is a much closer representation of the actual low frequency response:

    New higher resolution polar plot with shows that the horn section it exhibits pattern control down to about 500hz and with the CDX1-1731 maintains constant directivity up to nearly 18khz:

    Crossover connection guide:
    Note: Newer Crossovers come on PCBs which have both positive and negative connections for IN/LF/MF/HF at each terminal block eliminating the separate negative terminal block as seen on the older style milled board above. Image of newer Titan PCB design:

    The waveguide bracket was designed so that the crossover could be installed on the backside of it behind the brace if desired. This way the midrange and compression driver could be connected directly the crossover board and the woofer enclosure only needs a single terminal cup/biding posts for it's input. Another terminal cup could easily be mounted onto the backside of the waveguide bracket for the amplifier input for the crossover if you do not wish to run the bare wire directly to the crossover board. Something like this could be installed on the back of the waveguide bracket using the bottom two screws on it's mounting flange. https://www.parts-express.com/parts...minal-cup-banana-5-way-binding-posts--260-303
    Similarly a small piece of wood could be glued onto the back of the waveguide bracket allowing for regular binding posts or a speakon terminal to be installed for the input if desired.

    Woofer Enclosure:
    If wanting to build a custom woofer cabinet you can do so. A ported enclosure would work between 4-6cuft, correct tuning is achieved with the 4" precision ports using only the two flares connected together. This results in a tuning of about 40hz in the 4cuft enclosure which drops down to about 32hz in the 6cuft enclosure.

    A sealed enclosure of 3 cuft would also work for both the LX and regular Titan-615 designs, f3 in that sealed enclsoure will be about 80hz for the regular Titan-615 and 70hz for the LX design.

    The walls of the woofer enclosure should be lined with damping martial (~2" thick foam, polyfill, fiberglass or recycled denim), you should only have to apply it on the sides/back and top of the enclosure. For the bottom section with the ports it's best to leave them plenty of space but if you can use some there as well if you keep it at least 4" away from the ports.

    Optional Crossover Modifications (July-2018):
    I was testing some adjustments to the crossover recently and noticed some things that can improve the sound.

    Removing the 33 Ohm resistor boosts the level of the midrange by a little bit (1-2dB) and this gives a speaker a little more presence and detail through the midrange. this can be achieved by unsoldering and removing the resistor entirely or just by cutting one of the leads where it attached to the board.

    The other option is placing a 25-27 Ohm resistor in parallel with the HF outputs this gives a slight downward tilt to the HF response totally about 2.5dB at the very top end. This makes the sound slightly less clinical without much loss of detail.

    The combination of the 25-27 Ohm resistor added to the high frequencies and the removal of the 33 ohm midrange resistor results in the overall response taking on a bit more of a downward tilt and I find this can be more engaging in general and less fatiguing at high volume playback.

    Titan-630LX Modification:
    I haven't done any true testing or tuning on the dual woofer version since I only have one woofer and enclosure so the voicing isn't as refined as the stock single woofer design. Since the passive approach has only been simulated I offer it only as an optional untested modification.

    This modification involves adding an additional woofer to the design resulting in greater bass output. A second woofer and cabinet can be purchased as the 15" MBM kit on DIYSG. The second woofer gets wired in parallel with the first woofer on the crossover board with minimal modifications to the crossover board required.

    A 4uF cap should be placed in parallel with the 18uF cap (or replace the 18uF with a 22uF cap). A 10 Ohm resistor shall be placed in parallel with the 6 Ohm resistor (or replace the 6 Ohm resistor with a 4 Ohm resistor). Finally remove or cut a lead from the 33 ohm resistor.
    BBLV likes this.
  3. Great right up and introduction to this new design! Wish I had a dedicated space... :cool:

    Out of curiosity, what would be recommended to use as surrounds, effects channels, etc? Current DIYSG kits or is will there be something new that would work better?

    Any other pictures that you can share or details on how the horn attaches to the cabinet? I assume XO boards will be made available?
  4. Thanks,

    For surrounds any of the popular choices should work well, Volt's, Fusion, HTM's or more Titan-615's. :D
    There isn't really a surround option in the works for these using the same waveguide as obviously it would be huge.

    Right now I have the horn attached to a MDF stand that's basically just three 10" deep pieces in a u shape along the sides and bottom. It's pretty ugly and won't be the final way the waveguide is held up. Mine is not attached to the woofer cabinet at all just sits on top, Erich was talking about having a nicer bracket made that holds it up but I am not sure what that looks like.
  5. Ha, use Titan-615s as surrounds... lol Good to hear that you feel the current DIYSG choices will work well. I guess Erich is thinking about something like this:

  6. #6 Erich H, Jan 19, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
    **** Copy/Paste from the thread on AVS about the woofer and other parts of the speaker ****

    After hearing a single 12" Magnum woofer Eminence made for us a couple years ago, I realized we could probably get some incredible output with the right 15" woofer. I talked with Matt and he modeled/tested a few 15's that were okay, but we wanted something crazier. Last year Eminence offered to make a 15" version of the Magnum-12 with the santoprene surround, but the sensitivity wasn't going to be as high as we wanted. So the Titan woofer ended up using a pro audio surround that allowed for a high X-max but also kept the sensitivity high enough. After some testing of this powerful beast.....the project began.

    I believe this 15" can move twice as much air as most pro audio woofers.

    Feast your eyes on a video that MTG90 took:


    Midrange and compression driver information:

    Thumbs up to Eminence for making us 3 different 6.5" sealed back samples. But in the end there just isn't really anything needed to improve on their standard model. After Matt tested and listened to them, we decided the regular Alpha 6CBMRA worked great as is. After reading some pro audio forums, I was surprised how many well known companies actually use that midrange.

    The upper waveguide needs a screw-on compression driver versus bolt on. I don't have any higher end screw-on drivers yet and didn't want to use an adapter. So after ordering and testing every model I could find, the Celestion 1731 was the winner in sound quality. It has a poly diaphragm and neodymium magnet with a good sound like the compression drivers used in the other kits, which is what we were looking for.
  7. Any idea on price range? Broad spectrum is fine, just trying to get an idea.
  8. Can some one help a noob like me?

    I have a few questions about the The Titan-615LX Speaker Kit.

    1. Will this speaker be good for playing speed metal, fast rock and roll, and high BPM EDM music?
    2. What is the recommended room size for a speaker like this, and can it play in a smaller room?
    3. Can I power the Titan-615LX with an Emotiva XPA-1 and what is the recommended minimum power for this speaker to play to its full potential?

    Thank you very much for your time.

    I always wonted to own a big speaker, and this one might be it.

  9. 1. While this speaker was not technically designed for any specific genre of music I think it should give you decent results with those, bass resolution is good so any kind of bass drum should be clear and impactful, and the rest of the range should come through as detailed without being harsh when turned up.

    2. You can use these in a small room though much smaller then 1200cuft and you might find the bass to become a little strong but it depends on bow much bass you like and exactly how much room gain there is.

    3. An XPA-1 would be plenty to bring out the full potential of the Titan-615LX. There is little gain going to more then the 1000w that amp delivers.
  10. You guys never cease to amaze me, not only on the product line, but on the cost prices. This looks like a mega expensive pro-cinema product but the prices are so affordable. Just wish I lived in the USA...

    What waveguide is that Matt - a JBL?

    Ever time I think I'd like to have a go at building something similar to what you guys produce, you then come out with something new like the Titan, and my plans change again. It's a good thing I'm generally too busy and don't buy the parts to make anything (well, not too many parts)...
  11. Great write-up Erich and Matt, it makes me want to buy them.
  12. Hi folks. I like what Erich, Matt, and DIYSG is doing here. Have been playing catch up in the forums for a couple of months and still have plenty of questions.

    Is there any sonic advantage to either Titan flat pack config., deep or shallow, or is it entirely builders choice?

    Anyone using the Titan for surrounds? Music reproduction is important to me. I currently use the same towers for surround as for L&R.

    Thanks in advance.
  13. Matt, if a person is going to be powering the LCR with less than 400w RMS in a 2000cuft sealed room, is there much of a difference between the -615 and the -615LX?
  14. On the low end no, not really much difference between the woofers up to that power level, however the compression driver in the LX version does sound better (cleaner and more transparent) at any listening level.
  15. Thank you for your response.
    When you say that the compression driver sounds cleaner and more transparent, could you explain what that means? Are you saying that there is less distortion and better high frequency response? I’m used to listening to movies and music using my Paradigm Monitor 11s. I am SURE either of the 615 versions would be a MAJOR improvement/upgrade. Also I am going to place the 615s behind a AT 120” wide screen using the shallow design. So that would leave me roughly 22.5” between each the L to C and C to R, would that be too close? Ear height at listening position is 36 at a distance of 10’ from center channel.
  16. It's hard to explain because the frequency response and distortion are really close between the two designs, CD in the 615LX is slightly smoother but I am not entirely sure the extra clarity can be attributed to just frequency response.

    That shouldn't be too close if you wave the shallow cabinets, you can move the waveguides on the left and right speakers to the sides of the woofer cabinets to increase the spacing if you feel it's needed.
    Purenv likes this.
  17. At 10’, ears to the center channel, is that too close? Do you suggest that I should angle the horns down just a hair or should I be okay?
  18. That isn't too close, because of the crossover points and driver spacing integration distance on the horn is similar to something like the Fusion-8. As long as ear height is level to somewhere within the waveguide you won't really notice a difference if you aimed the waveguide down or not.
  19. Hi Matt, I am going to build a trio of Titan-615LXs with the narrow flat packs and a pair of Volt 10-V2s with the ported flat packs, I am going to use wedge-shaped acoustic tiles for enclosure dampening, the tiles are 4,5 cm thick at their highest point, can I use this foam for both the Titans and the Volts as the Volts assembly page recommends 1"-1,5" thick dampening?
  20. Those tiles should work fine.
  21. would this configuration work with the Titans. Having an issue positioningNorwichTitan.jpg the speakers behind screen and not having the listening level too high.
  22. Yes that configuration will work fine. If all three speakers are going to be placed like that make sure the L/R have the woofers positioned to the inside of the mid/high waveguide. So left speaker would be as you have it shown above, right speaker would be opposite.
  23. Only the center channel speaker will be in this configuration.
  24. In that case it doesn't really matter which way it is placed.

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