Volt Coaxial Speaker Kits

Discussion in 'Home Theater Speaker Kit Information' started by Matt Grant, Dec 28, 2014.

  1. Hi Matt I am in a similar kind of position.. I have ordered my volt 6's for my back surrounds. I need to keep the box as shallow as possible so I was thinking of 5 inches deep (internally) . Is this possible? I am building custom boxes so if I have the depth at 5 inches what would the width and height need to be in order to achieve the performance it should without any compromises? Thank you Matt.
     
  2. It would be tight but doable, the Volt-6 overall depth is 4.5".

    Assuming 5" internal depth, I'd make it around 10" wide and 14" tall, or 9" wide and 16" tall, that's external assuming 3/4" material. You could shave off 1/2" from those figures if using 1/2" panels.
     
    William Chenoweth and mkohman like this.
  3. Matt, I am trying to decide between the Volt8 or 10. I am needing to use an angled flat pack because I am limited to mounting the two Volts as my only surrounds mounted to the ceiling firing them downward and across the listening positions. They are being pared with 1099s for my front LCR. I will most likely be using an 80Hz crossover. So I would like a solid response down to 80Hz.
     
  4. 86EE3A73-0E5E-44F1-9858-B1C8ABECA691.jpeg

    It has been brought to my attention that my question above is not accurate. What I meant to ask for is advice regarding my placement situation and which kit would work better.
    With the woofer cone/waveguide being so close to the ceiling and having possible reflection issues.
     
  5. #280 William Chenoweth, Oct 16, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
    Hi Matt,

    I cannot find an Eminence 6CX WinISD file for the Volt-6 6" driver (Denova Audio CX-06), would it be fair to say that the Eminence Beta-6a is close enough? (From your original zipped WinISD speakers download from an old AVSForum thread.)

    I am basing this off of how close the SPL plots for its bigger brother the 8CX vs the 8CX. (see attached)

    Thanks,

    William

    Extraneous Info:
    I will get an in-room REW measurement tomorrow.

    The reason I am trying to plot it out in WinISD is because my custom cabinet table-top Volt-6s sound a bit blubbery on the low end even though Audyssey is crossing them over @70, and blocking 1 port seems to help but there is extreme air movement.(enough to knock back a toupee) Based on the Beta-6a parameters I am thinking I need to remove an inch or more from each port (currently two 1.20" round ports, each approx 3" long) and cross them over at 90 or 100hz since the bass under that range is not desirable IMO unless the volume is too high. (But my room has an issue right around 90hz, so I am scared I might be harming them more than helping at this point, or should I embrace the VBSS and try to use the NX6000 DSP to balance everything out since I only use the VBSS @ about 10-20% of its capacity?)

    Original Flatpack Volt-6 Ported Cabinet Volume:
    8"w x 12"h x 6.75"d
    .375 cf (without drivers & ports)

    Finalized Tabletop Volt-6 Ported Cabinet Volume:
    8"w x 12"h x 6.75"d
    .275 cf (without drivers & ports)

    SS_Eminence-Beta8Avs8CX_WinISD-SPL.gif SS_Driver-Specs_Eminence-Beta-8CX-vs-8a.gif _Custom-Denova-Volt-6_aluminum-stand.jpg SS_WinISD_Volt-6_SPL-plottedAT-80-95-and-110hz.gif
     
  6. I am pretty sure I am overthinking this whole thing. I can't wait to take in-room SPL measurements with REW.

    If the 6A is even close to the 6CX then: (Is it Matt? This is my only question in this entire post unless I am assuming incorrectly)

    A. It looks like my little custom Volt-6s are currently tuned somewhere around 85hz using both 1.25" diameter circle ports 3 inches long in 0.25 CF. (By plugging one 3" long port, the current tune changes to 60hz is probably why they sound better when set to large speakers but still lack down low, so it is a moot point.)

    B. Removing 1 inch from each port (2 inches long) will change the Volt-6 tune to 100hz/2 ports OR 70hz/1 port respectively. See attached.

    Conclusion:
    Since I have 4 extra ports, I think I am going to cut 4 of them in half and tape them together so the inside has the same flanged end as the front has while changing the length 1/2" at a time until I lock onto something useful. (It is currently straight.) While taking raw REW measurements as the ports get smaller.

    If anything, this has been a good exercise giving me a new perspective in the world of speaker building. I will be preaching that especially if I end up keeping the 3-inch ports I started with. [smacks forehead]


    SS_BETA-6A_WinISDplot-100hzVS70hz.gif
     
  7. OK I JUST LEARNED A GREAT DEAL. I will write a quick overview here just in-case it might help someone else trying to "perfect their port".

    Firstly, REW is amazing. Secondly, I should not have been so worried about the ports because Matt's 1st suggestion to me was right on the nose. Not that it matter's much anyway. As you can see from the SPL Plots, my room is my biggest enemy and it does not matter where the microphone is pointed in the MLP (Main Listening Position), if the Volt is not perfectly directed at the MLP, or if you change the tuning from 60 hz to 90 hz because your beautiful sound (see top of plots, they were taken 4 inches from the Volt 6) is most rudely reshaped into whatever the room wants it to be. (See the cluster of plots at the bottom taken at the MLP) And in just 2 feet forward from the MLP you might be a completely different problem.

    Volt-6 in a 2.75 sq foot cabinet with TWO 1.25 diameter round ports, both 3 inches long.
    002-HUGE-Lesson-Learned_RoomAccousticsRULE-EVERYTHING.jpg

    Overview Top 3 Plots: (All taken 4 inches from speaker, so room influence is minimal)
    #1 Dark Blue Shows the 2 port configuration - 6dB gain in the low-end compared to 3rd Sealed Plot but does not get as low.
    #2 Dark Green Shows the 1 port configuration - 3dB-4dB gain in the low-end compared to the 3rd Sealed Plot.
    #3 Cyan Shows the Volt 6 Sealed - Baseline Driver Extension

    Overview Bottom 7 Plots: (All taken from the MLP)
    #1-7 Rainbow Loving - Shows as many changes as I could think of while keeping the mic within a 1 foot area to the MLP
    -Changed Tuning by stuffing a port
    -1 plot shows the mic directed all the way back towards the kitchen while another is directed towards the TV
    - Another shows me directing the speaker directly at the MLP because it sets off-center 30 degrees to reach the whole sofa


    My Favorite? The first Dark Blue Plot Since I will be crossing them over anywhere from 80 to 100. Geeeez Well at least I know its right.

    Now it is time to play around with sofa placement again. I did this for days only recording the LCRs and VBSS, so hopefully I can figure out why there are weird dips in odd places.

    Its too bad I cant use the Room Simulator in REW because I think that might help me understand "nulls" or "suckouts" or whatever they are called (like at ~65hz on my plots) :( Big Sad Face.
     
    sugarbear likes this.
  8. William,

    Love your Volt 6 build--always good to see that smallish driver (For DIYSG anyway) Always wondered and pondered the 6.5 incher and what the T/S parameters would be. Take the CX-10 motor/voice coil/spider and throw on the Beta 6 cone makes a lot of sense. I would hazard to guess that the large acoustic dust cap would weigh the cone down which would lead to a lowering of Fs and knock off a bit of sensitivity. The Beta 6 at 94dB and the Volt 6 at 93dB would follow my attempt at logic. (I try!) All in all, a great design that can make it to 80Hz when mounted on a wall quite easily and do well stand alone.

    I use the CX-10 mywelf, nice coax when crossed at 1,500 Hz with a beefy crompression driver (PSD2013 and the like) I ponder if Erich would sell just the 6.5" driver by itself--I'd like to play around with one and screw in the PSD2013 and putz around with the XO and see if I have the "dark art of crossover building" in my tool box. Granted, the thing would be a monster and weigh over 12 pounds--a bit "much" for a 6.5" coax but such is DIY. My ponderings have to do with "timbre matching" to the much larger CX-10 compression driver because although the ten has great performance, the size does get in the way for surrounds in most cases.

    Thanks again for posting your results with the mighty mouse Volt 6 build--great driver and a snazzy design--good stuff! Seriously thinking about emailing Erich to see if I could get a pair of the CX-6 drivers to mess around with--your results want me to build more speakers, not sure if that is a good thing or not. Have a great weekend!
     
  9. What Volts will be coming back? It's more of a what question than a when.

    I need two more Volt 10s to complete the speakers in my theater build. Right now I'm somewhat torn between angled or without the flat pack for my particular setup, and could go either way, though I'm probably leaning towards the angled flat pack. I see there are some angled Volt 8s in the clearance section and it's otherwise down to just out of stock straight Volt 10s. I know for surround duty mixing some 8s with 10s probably won't matter in the end, but I'm pedantic enough to want them all to match. All things considered I would rather not get the angled Volt 8s, and I can be patient for a little while.

    Any advice or foresight you can lend?
     
    Pat likes this.
  10. I am also looking for the Volts. Im looking for the Volt6's for more Atmos.
     
  11. For Volt-6 as Atmos, is it better to have the flat ones for ceiling mounting or angled on the wall / ceiling pointing more directly at sitting position? 8ft ceilings and 10x20 room.
     
  12. I would go with whatever version aims the speaker closest to the MLP or most opposite seating position to that speaker. This will give the best coverage of the top octave to the seating which rolls off fastest on these when you move off axis.

    You don't really want the speaker aimed straight down unless the seating is right under the speaker, the angled version sticks down too far or you are willing to make a small compromise in sound to have a more flush appearance.
     
  13. watched the home gurus youtubes take on the volts. guy wasnt impressed with the off axis. is there any response to his view on it?
     
  14. #289 Matt Grant, Dec 23, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2020
    Take a look at the entire loudspeaker industry as a whole, how many commercially built speakers have documentation of both on and off axis frequency response published, or really any kind measurements at all? You want to know why not? The problem with publishing measurements of loudspeakers is just this, if they don't look perfect people will try to pick them apart based on the measurements alone. Many speakers measure far worse the the Volts do and that's exactly why measurements aren't normally published.

    In the comments of the video he even agreed with another that the Volts sound good and he had a room full of them. I argue that if I didn't have the response curve for the volts posted then this video bashing them would not exist. Heck he may have made a video on his channel recommending them.

    Yes the Volts are not the perfect loudspeaker nor is their frequency response ruler flat or perfectly uniform off axis, these are mainly limits of the woofer design. But they do a certain thing and do it well, they are an inexpensive high sensitivity/high output coaxial design that sounds quite decent for home theater use and allows for a variety of cabinet and mounting options and that's all they were ever marketed as being. Look at all the reviews or build threads in the various forums using these speakers, look at how often they are praised and recommended. Why would those reviews or recommendations exist if the speakers weren't performing well in their intended roll.

    Did he actually recommend any speakers that are similarly capable in terms of sensitivity, output capability, mounting options and price? No because you can't buy anything else for a similar price that does everything the Volts do. If I am wrong feel free to post such a speaker.

    Now I have no problem saying the HT series are better measuring and sounding speakers then the Volts and often recommend them over the Volts for regular surround channels or LCR but the Volts still have better vertical dispersion which makes them ideal for use as Atmos speakers and are generally more flexible in cabinet design and mounting which is why they are still a popular choice.

    Also this video has been brought up before.
     
    TimGrady likes this.
  15. thank you for the reply. so many people praise these speakers and i am looking at them for atmos. you are spot on about if the measurements werent published no one would say anything other than how they sound. just couldn’t understand why one person disliked them while i havent read a bad thing about them.
     
  16. The standard advice on surrounds is to use HT speakers when at ear level and Volts when you need something positioned high and angled down or for when you need ceiling speakers.

    If you're in the later two categories then get Volts, build them, try them out versus any consumer grade surround speakers that you can get your hands on, and I assure once you lean into them and open them up you'll understand. They're in a different class from the consumer stuff as they're not intended for a living room, but rather more for giving the home theater entheusiest an attainable substitute for something like a JBL 8102.

    Volts aren't being used for two channel critical listening, they're being used for stuff blowing up, car crashes, ambient city sounds, and stuff whizzing by. Having surrounds that can keep up with your mains but don't cost as much as your mains is transformative to the home theater experience. They make lots of loud for their size and spread it all over the place cleanly which is exactly what you're looking for from surround speakers. For LCR duty there are better choices.
     
  17. i did the pre order for the 1099s and i want ht8s for the surrounds and volts for atmos. its hard for me to compare against other speakers as in north dakota there isn’t much out there. so i rely on reviews. so before spending money i try to understand the good and bad reviews before buying. and usually one negative review can throw me for a loop.
     
  18. What is the best way to aim the volts at the main listener position for atmos? I want to keep the speaker recessed in the ceiling to keep the flush look of the ceiling. My joists are 9.5 inches deep, and 15.5 inches wide.
     
  19. Question for Matt-

    I have V1 Volt 8s. They have the DNA150. I’m putting them in new enclosures and was wondering if it would be worth me upgrading to the 1446 CD and assembling a new crossover (if I could source some PCBs and components)? The 1446 seems to be more of a quality driver and on the surface has better power handling capabilities. Kind of a refresh while I put them in new enclosures?

    Other question, I have the ported Flat Packs Erich used to offer (reg square). I dont have the port tubes for them, as they were sold out when I got these to move them out of the slanted boxes. Do you recall what the optimum tuning and port length was for those boxes and the V8s?

    Thanks!
     
  20. The 1446 used in the Volt-8 isn't a huge upgrade from the DNA-150 though I did make some voicing update between the designs. The 1446 does not offer much in terms of extra power handling as that's really woofer limited either way. With ~100w input the average power drawn by the CD over it's range is roughly 6-8w.

    If using a pair of these ports you will want to cut them to ~3" long which should tune to about 70-75hz.
     
  21. Thanks man!!!!! Sounds like not worth the trouble of getting the pieces for the Celestion.
     
  22. Heads up folks who got a Volt 6 recently. The capacitors that I got in my kit didn't match what was on the XO instruction sheet. I emailed back and forth with Erich and it seems I got the older sheet for the previous drivers. Since odds are decent that someone else got what I got I'll post the info here. If your sheet references 15 uF caps instead of 22 uF caps then read on.

    Make the following substitutions if applicable:

    3.0 uF cap instead of 3.3 uF cap
    15 uF cap instead of 22 uF cap
    12.5 Ohm resistor instead of 12 Ohm resistor
     
  23. There were just a couple people that got the old pages and I'll contact them and send them the newest one.

    The Volt-6 was out of stock for a long time and when I grabbed the layout sheets I grabbed the ones from a few years ago by mistake. The parts people received were correct though, so that's good.
     
    Jack H Toepfer and Paul Carlucci like this.
  24. #299 John Borek, Jan 27, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
    Matt, I built my columns to fit Ht-8s At 13" wide 18.5" tall and 7.5" deep. l keep missing out on the Ht-8s so i bought 4 volt tens. I was wondering what would be a good box size for ported or just keep them sealed lcr's are Ht-10s.
    Thanks
    John
     
  25. John, I can't answer your question directly, but from experience I can say that little low end bass is present in the mix sent to surround speakers. The HT-10's only go down to 65hz, so I am assuming you are using a subwoofer augment those. The Volt-10's are rated at 70hz in the sealed enclosure, while the Volt-8's are rated at 65hz in the ported enclosure. All this is to say that I would recommend you set your receiver/processor to crossover at 80hz and you should be just fine.
     

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